Tuesday, March 6, 2012

Is it Judgment OR Revival, or could it be Judgment AND Revival?

I keep hearing some ideas that strike me as very odd that I can't yet organize into a coherent point of view, which was also the case in my previous post. It's not getting much clearer yet. Some questions out of the incoherence occur:

Why does it matter that America isn't in the Bible as far as hopes for a revival go? Revival is God's coming down and imparting fresh spiritual life to His people This could happen in Timbuktoo as well as America and I don't think Timbuktoo is in the Bible either.

What does it have to do with the origins of America whether we have revival or not? Why should it matter whether the Founders were Enlightenment Deists or Christians for us to desire to wake up the churches and strengthen believers in the Holy Spirit? For whatever reason America as a whole HAS been historically characterized by Christian culture and if the churches get revived the whole culture will get renewed with a Christian outlook. What any of this has to do with specifics about the Founding generation completely escapes me.

Why should there be a problem with desiring and seeking revival whether or not the very last days are upon us and the Antichrist is just around the corner? Why would we need to find such a revival in the Bible in order to justify seeking it? We seek it because we need it. If it should come before the Evil Empire descends on us at least we will have had a wonderful awakening, the strengthening of God's people and the ushering in of many converts who won't be prey for that regime.

They seem to talk at times as if revival or desire for revival could interfere with the end times plan, even as if that would be working against God. Strengthening His church would be working against God? What if it did put off the timing of the coming of the final Evil Empire? God's going to object to that?

They also seem to talk as if Well fine if God brings revival well and good but if not well and good, as if revival simply drops out of the sky at God's bidding and has nothing to do with human effort. I've read quite a bit about revivals and one thing that is true of all of them is that there was deep desire and seeking for the revival and much much prayer. If that isn't happening there will not be revival.


LATER: The people who seem to be saying these things seem to have "moralizing" in mind as the problem, attempts to "reclaim" "Christian America" with politics and moral reformation, which tends to seek alignment with nonChristian groups that share the same moral perspective, meaning Christians aligning with Mormons and Catholics and the like in an ecumenical coalition. However, this does manage to get confused with long-established hopes for revival among true Christians such as Leonard Ravenhill never ceased calling for, and sites such as Sermon Index are dedicated to.

I get the feeling that these critics aren't really aware of these revival hopes and that may be why I'm having such a hard time grasping their position. I have certainly vacillated a great deal on whether or not such a revival is even possible at this time, or could even be risky considering all the false "Christian" groups that keep springing up like poisonous mushrooms these days that would do their best to interfere with it.

And now Glenn Beck the Mormon has been calling for "revival" which is another red flag. BUT: True revival is not possible within Mormonism, true Holy Spirit revival, because it's a false religion. The best they could do IS some attempt at moralistic reformation -- or some demonic manifestations perhaps, and we ARE getting near the time when "signs and wonders" are prophesied to start appearing. Same with Catholicism and all the growing bodies of apostate "Christianity" out there as well. Rick Warren's church, Joel Osteen's, the Emergent Church etc. etc.

But is it possible to have a true revival among true Christians without all the rest of that interfering? Again, I vacillate. I might not have worried about it except that I remember A W Tozer warning that there are times, and his own time was one, when revival would not be a good idea because of the backslidden or watered-down condition of the churches -- and he wasn't even talking about all the FALSE churches, just weak true churches. So the question about true revival really is: Is there enough of a true church now that God COULD revive us in true supernatural power and convert some of the apostates as well? Or not?

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